Shooting in a school car park in Perth

[Tish]

This has me absolutely furious.

A teenage boy arrested after allegedly firing a gun in the car park of a Perth school is believed to be a former student.
Just before midday, police were called to Atlantis Beach Baptist College in Two Rocks, in the city's outer northern suburbs.
The 15-year-old is accused of firing three shots, one of which hit a school building that had people inside.

Click Here

 

[Warrigal]

Yes, just saw that, Tish

Here is the ABC's version of this event.

Boy arrested after allegedly firing gun at Atlantis Beach Baptist College in Two Rocks - ABC News

 

[oldpop]

How in the world did a fifteen year old get a gun?

 

[davey]

careless gun care at home ?? - like not locked away??

 

[oldpop]

I thought Australia had strict gun laws and they had all been confiscated?

 

[hollydolly]

Thank God he didn't shoot anyone.. but what a fright for the teachers and children.

I looked it up on Google Maps.. what a stunningly beautiful place...

 

[Warrigal]

How in the world did a fifteen year old get a gun?

They weren't his. They were registered to his father who obviously did not secure them properly.

 

[Warrigal]

I thought Australia had strict gun laws and they had all been confiscated?

A common fallacy. Only certain categories of guns are unavailable - like pump action shotguns and military style weapons. Most guns were not confiscated after the Port Arthur massacre - there was a gun amnesty when people could surrender illegal guns and a buyback program.

The best thing that happened was that uniform legislation was adopted in every state and territory the federal government uses the customs service to confiscate illegal weapons (including knives and other prohibited items).

We don't know whether the father complied with registration requirements.

 

[StarSong]

A common fallacy. Only certain categories of guns are unavailable - like pump action shotguns and military style weapons. Most guns were not confiscated after the Port Arthur massacre - there was a gun amnesty when people could surrender illegal guns and a buyback program.

The best thing that happened was that uniform legislation was adopted in every state and territory the federal government uses the customs service to confiscate illegal weapons (including knives and other prohibited items).

We don't know whether the father complied with registration requirements.

I love and greatly envy AU's common sense approach. Would that the Americans could find a way to do something similar.

 

[Murrmurr]

I love and greatly envy AU's common sense approach. Would that the Americans could find a way to do something similar.

We did. It is illegal to own fully automatic weapons, short-barreled shotguns and rifles and high-capacity magazines, and assault weapons are illegal in California, Hawaii, New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. Some states have additional laws on the types of weapons you can own, whether or not you have to register them, how you're allowed to carry them, and how you have to store them.

Plus there are laws prohibiting felons and ex-felons and people with certain mental illnesses from buying and owning guns.

 

[StarSong]

We did. It is illegal to own fully automatic weapons, short-barreled shotguns and rifles and high-capacity magazines, and assault weapons are illegal in California, Hawaii, New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. Some states have additional laws on the types of weapons you can own, whether or not you have to register them, how you're allowed to carry them, and how you have to store them.

Plus there are laws prohibiting felons and ex-felons and people with certain mental illnesses from buying and owning guns.

The number of guns and shootings in the US is an abominable situation.

A friend just returned from a long vacation in France, Germany, Austria and Italy. Through many previous European visits she'd never experienced anti-American sentiment. This time she encountered numerous Europeans who treated her with derision, asking how she could live in the US, saying they'd never come here because it was so dangerous, and asked what was wrong with Americans that we kill our children?

What's overlooked in this thread is that the student fired a total of three shots, hitting the side of a building with one. That would barely make local news in the US, but because it was an Aussie kid it became international news. That's how rare this violence is in AU and how common it is in the US.

When you're in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging. But that's not the American way, is it? We're hellbent on digging clear through the planet and will start chomping through outer space until we hit the moon and will start digging through that, too.

Americans' lack of actions have proven that we value guns over (other) people's lives and (other) people's children's lives.

 

[Warrigal]

We did. It is illegal to own fully automatic weapons, short-barreled shotguns and rifles and high-capacity magazines, and assault weapons are illegal in California, Hawaii, New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. Some states have additional laws on the types of weapons you can own, whether or not you have to register them, how you're allowed to carry them, and how you have to store them.

Plus there are laws prohibiting felons and ex-felons and people with certain mental illnesses from buying and owning guns.

Ye, but the problem is that each state makes its own laws. That was the situation in OZ before Port Arthur. The states are still responsible for firearms legislation but by coming together with the Commonwealth, they thrashed out uniform laws across all states. There has been some erosion since then and Western Australia, where this recent event took place, has been relaxing some of their laws. After this, the Premier has said that that will be revisited. That is just one event with neither death nor injury. That is because he knows that the Australian people do not want our kids being shot at in their classrooms.

It is not uncommon for federal and state premiers to meet to try for consensus on various policies. One advantage we have over US is that we only have 6 states and 2 territories. You have 50 states and a couple of territories (?) so consensus is very unlikely to ever be achieved on any policy.

 

[Murrmurr]

The number of guns and shootings in the US is an abominable situation.

A friend just returned from a long vacation in France, Germany, Austria and Italy. Through many previous European visits she'd never experienced anti-American sentiment. This time she encountered numerous Europeans who treated her with derision, asking how she could live in the US, saying they'd never come here because it was so dangerous, and asked what was wrong with Americans that we kill our children?

What's overlooked in this thread is that the student fired a total of three shots, hitting the side of a building with one. That would barely make local news in the US, but because it was an Aussie kid it became international news. That's how rare this violence is in AU and how common it is in the US.

When you're in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging. But that's not the American way, is it? We're hellbent on digging clear through the planet and will start chomping through outer space until we hit the moon and will start digging through that, too.

Americans' lack of actions have proven that we value guns over (other) people's lives and (other) people's children's lives.

Ye, but the problem is that each state makes its own laws. That was the situation in OZ before Port Arthur. The states are still responsible for firearms legislation but by coming together with the Commonwealth, they thrashed out uniform laws across all states. There has been some erosion since then and Western Australia, where this recent event took place, has been relaxing some of their laws. After this, the Premier has said that that will be revisited. That is just one event with neither death not injury. That is because he knows that the Australian people do not want our kids being shot at in their classrooms.

It is not uncommon for federal and state premiers to meet to try for consensus on various policies. One advantage we have over US is that we only have 6 states and 2 territories. You have 50 states and a couple of territories (?) so consensus is very unlikely to ever be achieved on any policy.

My point is that despite changes in federal and state gun laws, the violence continues. Guns are smuggled in, stolen from responsible people, sold to people who lied on the paperwork, you can even get away with ordering them online. Cracking down on gangs and weapons smuggling, and updating and improving background checks and the purchase process would help a lot. Stiffer penalties for gun crimes would, too, and we need to massively improve our mental healthcare system. It needs a tracking system and nationwide cooperation between mental health providers, state agencies, and all mental health allied systems and agencies. Currently, that cooperation doesn't exist.

 

[StarSong]

Guns are smuggled in

Far more guns are smuggled out than in. Indeed, US gun laws are so loose in most states that there's no need to smuggle guns in. They can be purchased legally here.

However, gun smuggling FROM the US is a serious problem in Mexico.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/st...toxic-flow-of-gun-traffic-from-u-s-to-mexico/

 

[oldpop]

My point is that despite changes in federal and state gun laws, the violence continues. Guns are smuggled in, stolen from responsible people, sold to people who lied on the paperwork, you can even get away with ordering them online. Cracking down on gangs and weapons smuggling, and updating and improving background checks and the purchase process would help a lot. Stiffer penalties for gun crimes would, too, and we need to massively improve our mental healthcare system. It needs a tracking system and nationwide cooperation between mental health providers, state agencies, and all mental health allied systems and agencies. Currently, that cooperation doesn't exist.

Yes firearms are available for purchase online but they must be shipped to a licensed FFL dealer and a NICS background check is required to take possession of the firearm There is usually a fee paid to the FFL for his/her services. Of course what I described is the legal process for purchasing a firearm online. Criminals by nature could care less about laws.

 

[Murrmurr]

Far more guns are smuggled out than in. Indeed, US gun laws are so loose in most states that there's no need to smuggle guns in. They can be purchased legally here.

However, gun smuggling FROM the US is a serious problem in Mexico.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/st...toxic-flow-of-gun-traffic-from-u-s-to-mexico/

There's a lot missing from that article. Probably because some of the gun exchanging is secretly sanctioned by the FBI and CIA. I'm guessing at that, but I don't think I'm wrong. I remember reading over a decade ago that the FBI *may have* offered hands-off for the head of at least one up-and-coming cartel leader in exchange for their cooperation in providing information, pulling off a few assassinations, facilitating extradition approvals and stuff like that. Unconfirmed.

 

[Murrmurr]

Yes firearms are available for purchase online but they must be shipped to a licensed FFL dealer and a NICS background check is required to take possession of the firearm There is usually a fee paid to the FFL for his/her services. Of course what I described is the legal process for purchasing a firearm online. Criminals by nature could care less about laws.

Yes, and there are ways around that. You can order parts, for example (my son has done that), or have the firearm sifted through another country or shipped to an invented agency...a few people have it all figured out. Some criminal ring was busted for that a few years ago. I think they were based in Florida (if I saved the reference, I'll post it).

My point is, if someone wants to obtain guns illegally, they can get them.

Most guns used for street violence and such are stolen, sometimes by a family member. But nearly 100% of the guns sold in the US are purchased by decent people who want them either for home and personal protection or hunting and sport (legitimate sport). In which case, the time it takes for a thorough background check and registration shouldn't matter. It should be mandatory, it should be respected, and we should be grateful for it, imo.

 

[oldpop]

Yes, and there are ways around that. You can order parts, for example (my son has done that), or have the firearm sifted through another country or shipped to an invented agency...a few people have it all figured out. Some criminal ring was busted for that a few years ago. I think they were based in Florida (if I saved the reference, I'll post it).

My point is, if someone wants to obtain guns illegally, they can get them.

Most guns used for street violence and such are stolen, sometimes by a family member. But nearly 100% of the guns sold in the US are purchased by decent people who want them either for home and personal protection or hunting and sport (legitimate sport). In which case, the time it takes for a thorough background check and registration shouldn't matter. It should be mandatory, it should be respected, and we should be grateful for it, imo.

I agree. They can also be made on 3D printers.