The interesting aspects of becoming a widow or widower

bobcat

bobcat

Well-known Member
Location
Northern Calif
When you marry, you get a license to declare that you are married. However, when you are widowed you get no such license or declaration. You get a death certificate, and the law doesn't declare you single, they declare you unmarried. You can call yourself single, if you wish, but in their eyes you are just unmarried.
So when you come to filling out a form, do you check single or widowed, and it may have tax consequences, or qualify you for a different rate on insurance, etc...
Many legal and financial documents use the terms widow or widower to define a person’s marital status. Many women still refer to themselves as Mrs _______, instead of Miss _________. The Mrs title can often be misunderstood as someone who is married. Some may even choose to hyphenate their last name, and I'm not sure if they can just drop the married portion in the event of being widowed.

It's also interesting that when a woman gets married, she often changes her last name, but the man does not. Then after the death of a spouse, she retains her married last name, unless she petitions the court to change it back to her maiden name, but then what to do with all the agencies that know her by her maiden name. However, in the event of a divorce, she can have her name changed back as soon as the divorce is granted.

Some even consider themselves as married even after the death of a spouse, and still wear their ring, but the law still considers them unmarried. Some also don't like the narrowed choice of married, single, or divorced because it doesn't acknowledge that you had a marriage that was important to you. When a woman is widowed, she is sometimes referred to as a “single widow” or “single woman. ” This is sometimes done to differentiate between a married woman and a woman who is divorced or never married.

In some situations, the surviving partner might still be considered legally married if they do not file for a death certificate or complete the legal process necessary to declare the marriage over. It seems that the primary difference between single and widowed is that a single person has never been married, while a widowed person was previously married but is now single following the death of their spouse.
 

When I started dating a few years after my husband died, I first listed myself as "single", then switched to "widowed".

One guy said he didn't date widows because he couldn't get over the idea that they'd still be with their husbands if they hadn't died. Whaaat? Of course we'd still be with our husbands if they hadn't died! SMH

A widow is somewhere in between married and single....
 
Yeah, it gets complicated, nuanced, subtle.

If a couple gets divorced, how long are they both divorced rather than unmarried or single? 10 years? 20? 30? For life?

I also read some articles on late-in-life dating recently. It seems that woman are now labeling an adult male unmarried for around 10 years as a "feral man."
 

bobcat said:
When you marry, you get a license to declare that you are married. However, when you are widowed you get no such license or declaration. You get a death certificate, and the law doesn't declare you single, they declare you unmarried. You can call yourself single, if you wish, but in their eyes you are just unmarried.
So when you come to filling out a form, do you check single or widowed, and it may have tax consequences, or qualify you for a different rate on insurance, etc...
Many legal and financial documents use the terms widow or widower to define a person’s marital status. Many women still refer to themselves as Mrs _______, instead of Miss _________. The Mrs title can often be misunderstood as someone who is married. Some may even choose to hyphenate their last name, and I'm not sure if they can just drop the married portion in the event of being widowed.

It's also interesting that when a woman gets married, she often changes her last name, but the man does not. Then after the death of a spouse, she retains her married last name, unless she petitions the court to change it back to her maiden name, but then what to do with all the agencies that know her by her maiden name. However, in the event of a divorce, she can have her name changed back as soon as the divorce is granted.

Some even consider themselves as married even after the death of a spouse, and still wear their ring, but the law still considers them unmarried. Some also don't like the narrowed choice of married, single, or divorced because it doesn't acknowledge that you had a marriage that was important to you. When a woman is widowed, she is sometimes referred to as a “single widow” or “single woman. ” This is sometimes done to differentiate between a married woman and a woman who is divorced or never married.

In some situations, the surviving partner might still be considered legally married if they do not file for a death certificate or complete the legal process necessary to declare the marriage over. It seems that the primary difference between single and widowed is that a single person has never been married, while a widowed person was previously married but is now single following the death of their spouse.
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Actually a male friend of mine took his wife's surname when they were married. So both of them have her surname first and his second. I've never known any man who did that before.
 
bobcat said:
It's also interesting that when a woman gets married, she often changes her last name, but the man does not. Then after the death of a spouse, she retains her married last name, unless she petitions the court to change it back to her maiden name, but then what to do with all the agencies that know her by her maiden name. However, in the event of a divorce, she can have her name changed back as soon as the divorce is granted.
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In Australia men or women can change their name or not change their name and change it back again if they want to.
Any time.
Nobody has to petition the court to do so
 
dilettante said:
Yeah, it gets complicated, nuanced, subtle.

If a couple gets divorced, how long are they both divorced rather than unmarried or single? 10 years? 20? 30? For life?

I also read some articles on late-in-life dating recently. It seems that woman are now labeling an adult male unmarried for around 10 years as a "feral man."
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I suppose some just can't resist the urge to label, and although it may serve some purpose to liken them to a wild animal, surely some degree of domestication can be achieved with proper care and feeding, assuming his new environment is better than the one he's giving up.
 
chic said:
Actually a male friend of mine took his wife's surname when they were married. So both of them have her surname first and his second. I've never known any man who did that before.
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Well, that's a new twist. Haven't heard of that one before, but it certainly illustrates that he's not the macho type. Kudos.
 
January said:
In Australia men or women can change their name or not change their name and change it back again if they want to.
Any time.
Nobody has to petition the court to do so
Click to expand...
Wow, you would think that would cause a lot of turmoil with agencies throughout the country trying to certify the identity of individuals, but then again, if it's a name you went by preciously, and it's on your birth record, then perhaps they don't get all caught up in the nuances of legal protocol.
 
Due to my unusual marital situation (I was a co-wife in a religious not "legal" marriage), for tax purposes, I listed myself as single. I consulted with my attorney on this matter and that's what he said I should do. For other non government forms, such as medical forms, I list myself as widowed. I don't believe I've ever seen "Unmarried" as a category on any of the forms I've had to fill out. BTW...Imam's who perform religious marriages issue certificates of marriage and the couples are recognized as being legitimately married as far as the Islamic communities are concerned.

My husband was quite patient with me because I kept the married name of my first husband until after I retired because all the agencies I had contact persons at knew me by that name. I did not want to go through the hassle of changing it while I was working. After I retired, I took an Islamic name and did so legally through the courts. I chose the first name, kept my middle name to honor my birth mother (it was her first name) and used my husband's last name.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
Due to my unusual marital situation (I was a co-wife in a religious not "legal" marriage), for tax purposes, I listed myself as single. I consulted with my attorney on this matter and that's what he said I should do. For other non government forms, such as medical forms, I list myself as widowed. I don't believe I've ever seen "Unmarried" as a category on any of the forms I've had to fill out. BTW...Imam's who perform religious marriages issue certificates of marriage and the couples are recognized as being legitimately married as far as the Islamic communities are concerned.

My husband was quite patient with me because I kept the married name of my first husband until after I retired because all the agencies I had contact persons at knew me by that name. I did not want to go through the hassle of changing it while I was working. After I retired, I took an Islamic name and did so legally through the courts. I chose the first name, kept my middle name to honor my birth mother (it was her first name) and used my husband's last name.
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Yeah, I think usually people get better tax breaks when they are married, but each situation can be different. I suppose even a widowed person may be entitled to things that a single person isn't. Nevertheless, everyone can have their reasons for how they identify themselves.
 
Consider this situation. Let's say a married couple splits up, and he disappears, maybe to another country, or goes into seclusion, never to be heard from again. The woman is still married for the rest of her life, unless she gets a divorce. He may be dead in another country somewhere killed by a drug cartel, but she isn't a widow, unless there is a death certificate. I'm not sure how she files a joint tax return when he isn't around to sign it, but I haven't looked into that.

I'm sure this has been faced when a married soldier is missing in action, and the wife remains married indefinitely unless he is declared legally dead with no body as evidence. What if she refuses to accept that he is most likely dead? Can she legally remain married, or is she a widow because the military has to close the case? I don't know.
 
bobcat said:
Consider this situation. Let's say a married couple splits up, and he disappears, maybe to another country, or goes into seclusion, never to be heard from again. The woman is still married for the rest of her life, unless she gets a divorce. He may be dead in another country somewhere killed by a drug cartel, but she isn't a widow, unless there is a death certificate. I'm not sure how she files a joint tax return when he isn't around to sign it, but I haven't looked into that.

I'm sure this has been faced when a married soldier is missing in action, and the wife remains married indefinitely unless he is declared legally dead with no body as evidence. What if she refuses to accept that he is most likely dead? Can she legally remain married, or is she a widow because the military has to close the case? I don't know.
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One reason I am not a fan of "legal marriages" is that in some states, if said husband does disappear and leaves behind a lot of debt, his wife is ultimately responsible for paying that debt. Obviously the same goes for if the wife goes missing. You bring up interesting points about when a husband is killed whether in the line of duty or not, but the wife doesn't know for sure if he's dead or alive.

As far as spouses still wearing their wedding rings after a spouse dies, I did for a little while. The other day I was going to the supermarket, a man politely opened a door for me and asked me about directions or something. As I was walking he was still talking. He asked my name and I gave him my nickname. As I continued to walk he was behind me asking is that Miss or Mrs. I replied Mrs. I'm still a Mrs. when it serves my purposes. :LOL:
 
bobcat said:
Wow, you would think that would cause a lot of turmoil with agencies throughout the country trying to certify the identity of individuals, but then again, if it's a name you went by preciously, and it's on your birth record, then perhaps they don't get all caught up in the nuances of legal protocol.
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No - because in reality people don't change their name willy nilly and over and over.

Easy t o legally change your name on marriage, divorce, widowhood or any other reason if you want to - and then you have change of name documentation and get your drivers licence and other ID changed to your new name.

You dont have to go to court to do so or justify why you want to.
 
jujube said:
When I started dating a few years after my husband died, I first listed myself as "single", then switched to "widowed".

One guy said he didn't date widows because he couldn't get over the idea that they'd still be with their husbands if they hadn't died. Whaaat? Of course we'd still be with our husbands if they hadn't died! SMH

A widow is somewhere in between married and single....
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I’d still be with my former wife if she had not cheated on me or if she would have repented and sworn off that behavior. But neither happened. So What?

Divorce or death we are single again In terms of the law. Reality needs to be accepted. Some people may feel married even after their spouse dies. That’s OK, too. if that’s where the heart is, so be it. It’s not anybody else’s place to judge. In time that feeling might change.

personally, I think the guy who thinks such nonsense is foolish, and missing out on the company of many good ladies, and maybe one who is that special lady.
 
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January said:
No - because in reality people don't change their name willy nilly and over and over.

Easy t o legally change your name on marriage, divorce, widowhood or any other reason if you want to - and then you have change of name documentation and get your drivers licence and other ID changed to your new name.

You dont have to go to court to do so or justify why you want to.
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Not so sure I would use the term "easy" when it comes to government and the courts. At least that's never been my experience.
 
Well i presume you havent done it in Australia so I guess it isnt your experience

You don't need a court to do it here and yes, it is easy. People get married, divorced etc and do so. Or less often change to a simplified or shorter or somehow other different from their original name just because.
 
January said:
Well i presume you havent done it in Australia so I guess it isnt your experience

You don't need a court to do it here and yes, it is easy. People get married, divorced etc and do so. Or less often change to a simplified or shorter or somehow other different from their original name just because.
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You're right. I don't live there. It sounds as easy as making a sandwich.
Seems like that might have some downside, but I wouldn't propose to know.
 
For me one of the interesting aspects was that I lost my "husband shield". Now I have to remember not to be over chatty so people dont get the wrong idea and think Im flirting. Never had to worry before cause I was you know....married.
 
OK, here's a somewhat-long and convoluted story about something that happened many, many years ago to a family I was close to.

Husband was a high-ranking public official who used his power to become involved with a drug cartel. The couple were separated at the time. When the brown stuff hit the fan, he disappeared, deserting his family, taking all the money with him. Because of information received, it was considered pretty certain that he had been killed and his body dumped somewhere.

Years passed, his wife never gave up hope he was still alive somewhere. For some reason, he was never declared dead because the necessary seven years hadn't passed and there was no "proof" that he was dead. His wife probably could have divorced him because of his "desertion" but she didn't.

One day, BANG!, it was discovered that he had been living in the same state under a false name and had "married" again. He had just died (really, this time) when this all came to pass.

There was a great amount of legal problems and he owed a lot of money. His second "wife" said something to the effect about since it turned out that she wasn't legally his wife (the state had no "common law" statute), then she wasn't responsible for any of his debts or responsible to pay any funeral or burial fees and took off like a bat out of hell.

Of course, the creditors and anyone else who had any interest in the case went after the first wife, the "legal" wife, who didn't have two nickels to rub together or the emotional status to deal with anything more complicated than boiling an egg. It was a nightmare for everyone involved, including his poor daughter who was a teenager when this all blew up.

So there you go.......deserted wife-widow-without-the-benefits-etc. It took a long time to straighten all that out.

So, there are worse things than being single, divorced or widowed.....when you don't know WHICH one you are.
 


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