Classical Music

Eupher said:
I'm kinda new here still on this forum, but maybe some will recall that I'm a retired U.S. Army musician. Over an entire career, I've played and played and played lotsa music, all types and all styles. This piece, a tone poem originally written for symphony orchestra by Ottorino Respighi (an Italian guy) in 1924, consists of 4 individual sections, each of which covers settings of pine forests in and around Rome. Entitled "The Pines of Rome", this section, played by the U.S. Marine Band (President's Own), is the last of the entire piece and is called "Pines of the Appian Way."

The Appian Way is one of the roads that the Roman legions used to march to and from Rome on their various military campaigns. Imagine you're a legionnaire who has been on the march for months, have seen good friends die in battle, and as you approach Rome, your exhaustion - little by little - drops and you find new energy and new purpose in drawing close to your home. This is powerful music, and for a brass player like me, it's an opportunity to (with control and precision) play that triple fortissimo that we're normally held back from. It starts quietly, as if from a distance, then grows louder and more pressing as the Roman legion draws closer to Rome.
Click to expand...
Enjoyed reading your remarks, Eupher! I'm pretty new here myself. I played with the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra under Max Rudolph (and some pops for Erich Kunzel) for 3 years in the mid 1960s, which was the big start of my pro music career. I also played two seasons with the Cincinnati Opera, and two with Dayton Philharmonic. I was a percussionist and timpanist respectively. I left Cinti. for NYC on scholarship to finish my masters at Manhattan Schl. of Music because I wanted to be involved with new music, but later ended up in jazz/rock. I changed professions in 1978.

But we at times played Respighi's famous trio of "Rome" compositions, and I liked all of them. Fountains of Rome might have been my favorite. Memories fade. As I recall his orchestrations put me in mind a little of Richard Strauss.

Another coincidence? I live south of you in Mississippi..:)
 
ChiroDoc said:
Enjoyed reading your remarks, Eupher! I'm pretty new here myself. I played with the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra under Max Rudolph (and some pops for Erich Kunzel) for 3 years in the mid 1960s, which was the big start of my pro music career. I also played two seasons with the Cincinnati Opera, and two with Dayton Philharmonic. I was a percussionist and timpanist respectively. I left Cinti. for NYC on scholarship to finish my masters at Manhattan Schl. of Music because I wanted to be involved with new music, but later ended up in jazz/rock. I changed professions in 1978.

But we at times played Respighi's famous trio of "Rome" compositions, and I liked all of them. Fountains of Rome might have been my favorite. Memories fade. As I recall his orchestrations put me in mind a little of Richard Strauss.

Another coincidence? I live south of you in Mississippi..:)
Click to expand...
Great to meet you, Doc! You've definitely been places and have done a lot musically -- I trust you're still playing? If so, where? Tupelo? I don't know of any other orchestras in MS, though I'm sure they exist.
 

Mussorgsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition" as orchestrated by Maurice Ravel. I've heard lots of performances, but since I'm an unabashed and unashamed low brass player, my favorite is this 1990 performance of the Chicago Symphony, under Sir Georg Solti, in Japan.

Ravel orchestrated the tuba to play the solo part in "Bydlo" (the Ox Cart), but the Principal Trombonist Jay Friedman played the part on a euphonium, which occurs often. The part is scored for "Tuba", not "Bass Tuba" or "Contrabass Tuba", so on occasion Bydlo is played on an F tuba (especially in Europe) rather than the larger CC contrabass tuba.

Anyway, that's more information than most want to hear, but I had occasion to play Pictures on euphonium a few years ago and I had a heckuva good time.

 
For those who are interested in Ottorino Respighi, there is an excellent documentary:
"Ottorino Respighi - A Dream of Italy"

Respighi was not only a genius in music, but spoke eleven(!) languages fluently, among them the Russian language.

You must watch it directly on YouTube.

 
Last edited:
George1959 said:
For those who are interested in Ottorino Respighi, there is an excellent documentary:
"Ottorino Respighi - A Dream of Italy"

Respighi was not only a genius in music, but spoke eleven(!) languages fluently, among them the Russian language.

You must watch it directly on YouTube.

Click to expand...
I am simply stunned. Thank you for presenting this incredible documentary, @George1959. I have learned more about Respighi in this documentary than I ever knew, though I have played portions of his music many times.

Thoughts:
  • The cello concerto was especially rich and enlightening. Wonderful presentation, video, and mixing. The string quartet equally compelling. What strikes me about all of the concerts is the absolute passion of the players and, of course, the conductor. This extends to the conductor's own performance on piano, with orchestra accompaniment.
  • Could not agree more with Respighi's rejection of Schoenberg's own rejection of tonality. I have played a fair amount of 12-tone music and I could never wrap my head and my ears around it. Many may extol Schoenberg's vision, but I guess I could never "develop" enough for his "vision". That extends to much jazz music pimped today as "enlightening". OTOH, I have learned to appreciate Stravinsky's work (at least to some measure).
  • One argument I keep coming back to -- if Schoenberg's music was to alter European music forever, why didn't it? Apart from a few obscure composers (Rolf Liebermann comes to mind -- I played 2nd trombone in his "Concerto for Jazz Band and Symphony Orchestra" back in 1979), but AFAIK, that style of music never caught on with the public. Why? Because that music never righteously told a story. People could not relate. And if you're composing for yourself only, you can certainly compose whatever you like. And some musicians, such as jazz woodwind player Eric Dolphy, might have enjoyed it. But who else? A scattered few, here and there.
  • Duke Ellington -- "There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind."
  • Respighi wrote GREAT music. When I played his stuff, it kept me on the edge of my seat.
  • I confess -- I am an instrumentalist and NOT any sort of vocalist. Therefore, I can't really comment on those performances from a technical perspective. However, the soprano toward the end of the film seems to have some great vocal chops.
 
Last edited:
Eupher said:
Great to meet you, Doc! You've definitely been places and have done a lot musically -- I trust you're still playing? If so, where? Tupelo? I don't know of any other orchestras in MS, though I'm sure they exist.
Click to expand...
Oh no. Like I said, I changed careers in 1978. I've been a Chiropractor since 1983. I still keep in touch with past music buddies, and of course I still listen. But I haven't touched a pair of mallets or sticks in years. I just turned 80.

I had lots of good friends who were brass players, and I played in several brass choirs at the conservatory. Great stuff. Still playing trombone, I take it?
 
Eupher said:
Mussorgsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition" as orchestrated by Maurice Ravel. I've heard lots of performances, but since I'm an unabashed and unashamed low brass player, my favorite is this 1990 performance of the Chicago Symphony, under Sir Georg Solti, in Japan.
...
Click to expand...
Solti certainly choreographed himself very well...😄

In '66 the State Dept. sent us (Cincy Symph) on a world tour. One in the repertoire was "Pictures". It's a fun piece and a real crowd-pleaser. Nice workout for the brass section!
 
ChiroDoc said:
Oh no. Like I said, I changed careers in 1978. I've been a Chiropractor since 1983. I still keep in touch with past music buddies, and of course I still listen. But I haven't touched a pair of mallets or sticks in years. I just turned 80.

I had lots of good friends who were brass players, and I played in several brass choirs at the conservatory. Great stuff. Still playing trombone, I take it?
Click to expand...
Euphonium is my primary instrument, but I started out in jr. high by playing French horn and when that became a logistical problem (long story there), tenor trombone. Throughout my military career, I played euph and, at one point for a blissfully short period I was the world's worst trumpet player. But after retirement from the Army in 1995, I began playing bass trombone and tuba. I mostly play euph, but the last time I played bass trombone, I played baritone saxophone parts -- a lot of fun!
 
Eupher said:
...
  • Could not agree more with Respighi's rejection of Schoenberg's own rejection of tonality. I have played a fair amount of 12-tone music and I could never wrap my head and my ears around it. Many may extol Schoenberg's vision, but I guess I could never "develop" enough for his "vision". That extends to much jazz music pimped today as "enlightening". OTOH, I have learned to appreciate Stravinsky's work (at least to some measure).
    ...
Click to expand...
I agree with you about Schoenberg's insistence upon 12-tone. It's wonderful, and fantastically complicated-- but all in THEORY. Much of it is not listenable. And academic composers today look down their noses at more approachable music as gauche. That's why they stay in academia. Nobody else wants to hear their stuff.

OTOH Stravinsky, as you said, took 12-tone as a basis several times, but made them into compelling compositions, e.g. Agon (1957), a ballet.
 
Fred Jewell was a composer in the very early 20th century who wrote a LOT of music for Windjammers. Windjammers, like me, are musicians who play for the circus.

Screamers are marches especially written for the circus played at blisteringly fast tempos. Fred's piece is presented here. Put your seat belts on!

 
Eupher, I'm sure you're familiar with Dennis Brain, who some consider to be the greatest french horn player of all time. Of course since he died so young in 1957, I'm sure there have been some players since who have challenged his status. I'm trying to recall the very difficult concerto that he played with ease. It could've been the Mozart or Beethoven, but it seems to me it was a more modern piece. Do you know?
 
ChiroDoc said:
Eupher, I'm sure you're familiar with Dennis Brain, who some consider to be the greatest french horn player of all time. Of course since he died so young in 1957, I'm sure there have been some players since who have challenged his status. I'm trying to recall the very difficult concerto that he played with ease. It could've been the Mozart or Beethoven, but it seems to me it was a more modern piece. Do you know?
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm familiar with Dennis Brain and his reputation as perhaps one of the world's first horn virtuosos. I think he was well known for his recordings of the four Mozart horn concerti, and perhaps Strauss' horn concerto as well. Other pieces apart from concerti, of course. I read today that his recordings are still studied today for his innate phrasing, articulation, and overall musicianship.
 
I haven't been through all 18 pages of this section, but I'm reasonably sure E. Power Biggs isn't yet represented.

Recorded in 1972, this piece from Gigout, "Grand Chorus in Dialogue" marries the King of Instruments (the pipe organ) with the Columbia Brass and Percussion Ensemble.

 
Scored for 125 musicians, including 8 horns onstage and 12 horns offstage (wow!), Richard Strauss's "An Alpine Symphony" will grab you.

 
Eupher said:
Yes, I'm familiar with Dennis Brain and his reputation as perhaps one of the world's first horn virtuosos. I think he was well known for his recordings of the four Mozart horn concerti, and perhaps Strauss' horn concerto as well. Other pieces apart from concerti, of course. I read today that his recordings are still studied today for his innate phrasing, articulation, and overall musicianship.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think it was the Strauss Horn Conerto #2. Some of the fun starts with the Rondo at 13:10:
 
Eupher said:
I haven't been through all 18 pages of this section, but I'm reasonably sure E. Power Biggs isn't yet represented.

Recorded in 1972, this piece from Gigout, "Grand Chorus in Dialogue" marries the King of Instruments (the pipe organ) with the Columbia Brass and Percussion Ensemble.
Click to expand...
Biggs was a legend, for sure. And I think organ pairs best with brass ensembles than with a string orchestras. Not dissimilar timbres.
 
Eupher said:
Scored for 125 musicians, including 8 horns onstage and 12 horns offstage (wow!), Richard Strauss's "An Alpine Symphony" will grab you.
Click to expand...
Great piece. I'm trying to find a video of someone, like Thomas Ades (but maybe not), who conducted a mammoth sized orchestra in Stavinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps. He used something like 12 horns. All the instruments sections were much more outsized that what was already a large orchestra for the piece. Runs in mind it was a Brit orchestra. Quite impressive!
 
ChiroDoc said:
Great piece. I'm trying to find a video of someone, like Thomas Ades (but maybe not), who conducted a mammoth sized orchestra in Stavinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps. He used something like 12 horns. All the instruments sections were much more outsized that what was already a large orchestra for the piece. Runs in mind it was a Brit orchestra. Quite impressive!
Click to expand...
Back to the Alpine Symphony for a moment -- this is the first time I've ever seen a contrabass trombone scored in a symphony. I've seen a cimbasso here and there, but never a contrabass trombone (same register as a BBb tuba). Cimbassi and contrabass trombones are hugely expensive -- probably not so much as a contrabassoon and certainly not a Strad cello or violin, but way up there).

Strauss absolutely loved writing for the French horn (horn players have told me they prefer omitting the "French" in "French horn" and just go with "horn." Works for me! Must be the alphorn influence of southern Bavaria!

Photo of a cimbasso here:
 
Last edited:
ChiroDoc said:
Yeah, I think it was the Strauss Horn Conerto #2. Some of the fun starts with the Rondo at 13:10:
Click to expand...
That Rondo with the triplet arpeggios all over the map -- Lord. So easy to miss those at that tempo and with the overtone series so close together. He single-tongued all of that.
 
Eupher said:
I haven't been through all 18 pages of this section, but I'm reasonably sure E. Power Biggs isn't yet represented.

Recorded in 1972, this piece from Gigout, "Grand Chorus in Dialogue" marries the King of Instruments (the pipe organ) with the Columbia Brass and Percussion Ensemble.

Click to expand...
This one sounds a bit like something that might be played at a very formal wedding. It reminds me a bit of the processional (Rigaudon by Andre Campra) played at my own wedding. (The organist mangled it. Perhaps it was too difficult a piece to ask of her.)

I am loving this thread! I've learned so much already, and heard so much gorgeous music. 🥰

 


Back
Top