You're sidestepping my point about geographic insularity among Americans abroad by pivoting to a general truism about "human nature", which is a polite literary deflection, but doesn’t really engage my observation. What struck me in the 1960s wasn’t sameness of character, but the very uneven geography of who traveled and who didn't. Out of the hundreds of Americans I met on the road, over 95% were Californians, with a smaller sprinkling from Oregon and New York. Only two were from the Midwest, and just one from the Deep South. That imbalance speaks volumes about which regions produced the most inclined to venture beyond America’s borders.
Is America a third world country?
- Thread starter outlander
- Start date
You're sidestepping my point about geographic insularity among Americans abroad by pivoting to a general truism about "human nature", which is a polite literary deflection, but doesn’t really engage my observation. What struck me in the 1960s wasn’t sameness of character, but the very uneven geography of who traveled and who didn't. Out of the hundreds of Americans I met on the road, over 95% were Californians, with a smaller sprinkling from Oregon and New York. Only two were from the Midwest, and just one from the Deep South. That imbalance speaks volumes about which regions produced the most inclined to venture beyond America’s borders.
MoBeans
Member
The US is a union of states (US=United States). True the federal govt has a lot to say about it but the state governments decide the quality of life of the people living under them. There are some states that the standard of living is pretty low, while others it is pretty high. Not sure where the third world country bar is set at but some states are closer to it than others. As a whole the US is not. Yet.
gruntlabor
Well-known Member
- Location
- Last Frontier, Age 83
So your point is not what you said: that certain geographically grouped people are NOT curious about the world.
Your point is that they are NOT inclined to travel.
But it's not a question of what is NOT true
It IS true that the uber wealthy and the elite and the privileged are globe trotters.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
A bit off topic but this post in is in response to @Oosklar, post #201
Aussies tend to travel overseas but we have to save up for a long time to be able to afford the air fares. Trips to Bali and other far east resorts are quite common among younger Australians.
Hubby and I saved up for 10 years before setting out on a 5 month around the world holiday in 1985. As novice travellers we planned to visit only English speaking countries, US, Canada and UK. We budgeted very carefully and when we came back home we still had not spent all of our savings. We put the remainder to paying off the mortgage on our house.
There are a couple of Australian perks that help. One is the amount of vacation time. 4 weeks annual leave for permanent employees, plus long service leave that accrues with every year of employment with the same employer. LSL can be taken on full pay or half pay, stretching it our further.
We saved up for another 10 years and in 2000 we again took a long vacation with tours of Egypt, Turkey, Greece and Kenya. Soon after we toured China (Beijing, Xian and Shanghai), followed by a tour of Papua New Guinea on a small prop jet plane.
The last chapter of our overseas travels was limited to cruise ships operating out of Sydney.
Aussies tend to travel overseas but we have to save up for a long time to be able to afford the air fares. Trips to Bali and other far east resorts are quite common among younger Australians.
Hubby and I saved up for 10 years before setting out on a 5 month around the world holiday in 1985. As novice travellers we planned to visit only English speaking countries, US, Canada and UK. We budgeted very carefully and when we came back home we still had not spent all of our savings. We put the remainder to paying off the mortgage on our house.
There are a couple of Australian perks that help. One is the amount of vacation time. 4 weeks annual leave for permanent employees, plus long service leave that accrues with every year of employment with the same employer. LSL can be taken on full pay or half pay, stretching it our further.
We saved up for another 10 years and in 2000 we again took a long vacation with tours of Egypt, Turkey, Greece and Kenya. Soon after we toured China (Beijing, Xian and Shanghai), followed by a tour of Papua New Guinea on a small prop jet plane.
The last chapter of our overseas travels was limited to cruise ships operating out of Sydney.
againstthegrain
Senior Member
- Location
- Sun Valley, ID
^^^very cool!
I will second your comment by saying my relatives lived in the mountains of North Carolina. My paternal grandparents never left their town unless they were driving 20 miles to the "big city" of Asheville. My maternal grandfather once visited us in Florida and it was truly his "trip of a lifetime". My aunts, uncles and cousins never left their small towns and never traveled. Not surprisingly, they were very closed-minded. I had one aunt and uncle who traveled the US in a camper, and they were the most enlightened of my relatives.
Your statement is correct.
I also agree but only because of the many 3rd worid people around now.
You’re misreading my point. I never said Midwesterners or Southerners lacked curiosity, I said that, in the 1960s, very few of them were actually on the road compared to Californians and a handful of others. And that is not speculation, it’s what I actually saw firsthand.
Also, you do NOT have to be “uber wealthy” or “elite” to travel. I wasn’t swanning around first-class cabins on cruise liners, I hitchhiked across continents, slept in youth hostels, barns, my own tent, and even Sikh temples in India, Malaysia, Singapore, and Hong Kong. I worked on Icelandic and Norwegian fishing boats, washed dishes in Germany, did construction in Israel and Australia, and taught English in Japan and Vietnam. That’s how I funded my travels.
So please don’t confuse my real-life experience with some caricature of “privileged globe-trotters.” The wealthy have always been able to fly anywhere they liked. However, the more interesting story is how ordinary people managed it, and who actually showed up out there. And your Agatha Christie quote doesn’t erase that reality. Here is a photo of me taken in the front yard of the Sikh temple in Singapore in 1964. I was staying there while waiting for a ship to take me to Australia. The temple is behind the camera and cannot be seen.
Muskrat
Senior Member
- Location
- Mainly arizona
Much of what we take for granted in the US is funded by our various taxes. We complain all the time about them….meanwhile enjoying schools, law enforcement, fire fighters, sewers, municipal water systems, health departments, meat inspectors, paved interstates ect ect. Just travel a bit out of our comfort zone and look around. A great show to watch is “the world’s deadliest roads”. Then let us talk…
Aussies have always been great travelers, and I respect the careful planning you and your husband did for your trips. But what I was talking about in the 1960s was a different style of travel. The young Australians I met on the road back then weren’t saving for 10 years for a luxury cruise or a carefully planned package. They were backpacking on a shoestring budget, hitchhiking, and staying in youth hostels or other cheap accommodations, just like me. So, yes, Aussies as a nation have a well-earned reputation for traveling, but the ones I met in the 1960s were living out of backpacks, not cruise liner cabins. In December of 1964 and January of 1965 I hitchhiked across Australia from Perth to Darwin by way of crossing the Nullarbor to Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney, Surfers Paradise, Brisbane, Mount Isa, Camooweal, and Tennant Creek.
gruntlabor
Well-known Member
- Location
- Last Frontier, Age 83
" ... they've never been anywhere else and have zero curiosity about the planet they live on." --oslooskar, post #194
What you said, you now deny. So, it's all good.
**All's well that ends well. --Shakespeare**
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Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I became a mother aged 20 and Hubby had just turned 21. This was in the 60s but we were not free to backpack or hitchhike anywhere, in OZ or OS. As the children grew, we did take short holidays in Australia. At first we did not travel very far but later we extended our range by buying a campervan. Later we sold the van and camped in pup tents. We covered a lot of territory before we ever considered travelling overseas.
Fair point, gruntlabor, but that’s not the checkmate you were hoping for. There’s a distinction in what I said: I never stated that Southerners lack curiosity in general. I said they show zero curiosity about the planet they live on. That’s not the same thing. And since you quoted Shakespeare, let me add: "the devil is in the details." And while that’s not Shakespeare, it fits.
Muskrat
Senior Member
- Location
- Mainly arizona
So back in the very early 80’s I was watching the news at a friend’s house. They were showing a clip about the riots in South Africa related to apartide. My friend asked where the riots were taking place…I said South Africa. My friend said “well, that can not be…they do not have cars there”.
againstthegrain
Senior Member
- Location
- Sun Valley, ID
We are not paying as we go. Borrowing to pay for basic living expenses is not a strategy of a first world country, or even a successful household.
Muskrat
Senior Member
- Location
- Mainly arizona
Borrowing it is for sure.
Years ago, when my daughter was in elementary school and playing on a local soccer team, we often crossed paths with another family who, like us, regularly attended the games. Over time, casual sideline chats became familiar. The husband was a Sheriff's deputy, friendly and easy to talk to. One afternoon, he mentioned they were planning an overseas vacation. He was drawn to the idea of visiting Iceland, while his wife leaned more toward exploring mainland Europe. His plan, he explained, was to fly into Iceland, spend a few days there, and then rent a car and drive to Germany. I didn’t offer much commentary—just a simple question: what kind of car was he thinking of renting?
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Your friend the “Sheriff’s deputy” may have meant that he wanted to rent a car and take it on the North Sea car ferry at Seyðisfjörður, in eastern Iceland, which connects Iceland with mainland Europe. If a rental agency allowed its vehicles to leave Iceland, he could conceivably rent a car in Reykjavík, drive the northern part of the Ring Road to Seyðisfjörður, board the ferry to Denmark, and from there travel with his family wherever he wanted in Europe. He could then return by ferry to Seyðisfjörður, drive the southern part of the Ring Road back to Reykjavík, and return the car.
My son and I rented a car in Iceland in the summer of 2008 and drove around the Ring Road, camped out, and stayed in youth hostels. I took this photo in Seyðisfjörður. At the time, there were quite a few European tourists traveling around Iceland in their own vehicles, which they had brought over on the North Sea ferry with them.
Teacher Terry
Well-known Member
Like you, I got married young and had my three kids so travel was definitely not in the budget. We also saved and paid cash for me to obtain a bachelors degree and 2 masters degrees. My kids were grown up before I could afford to travel internationally.
My parents had to wait for us kids to grow up before they did any traveling at all. My grandparents never got to travel anywhere because of lack of money. Yes, some young people travel on a shoestring because they didn’t have any responsibilities. I actually don’t know anybody that has done that but have read about them.
I have known some people that don’t like to travel at all and others that like to travel all the time. I fall somewhere in the middle of that continuum.
I suppose that's possible, but had you been there, I suspect you would have realized he wasn't thinking of a ferry.
I'll take your word for it. After all, even though I've told a number of former business associates back in the U.S. that I live in Thailand, they still ask me on occasion if I'm enjoying life in Taiwan. In fact, I once tried to explain to a woman I knew back in California that her dwarf goats could take the heat in California because their breed had originated in Africa. Quick to flaunt her supposed expertise, she smugly cut me off and proclaimed, with an air of finality, “My goats’ breed did not originate in Africa, it originated in Nigeria.” The irony, of course, was lost on her. LOL
Oh man... reminds me of this old saying: "Often wrong but never in doubt."