National debt tops 31 Trillion for the first time

Contrary to popular belief, most of the debt is held by Americans through purchasing bonds, t-bills, etc. A few countries do hold some of our debt, but the vast majority of our debt is held by the public. If we would raise taxes and cut spending, there is a chance the debt could be paid down, but we have spoiled ourselves. We treat our treasury like a Visa card that has no limit.

I really donā€™t care to get into a debate that borrowing can be a good thing, yet there are those in government that believe this.
 
Here's what I don't understand. When more stimulus checks were suggested during the pandemic, the response was it would be too expensive to send out more. Other pandemic related help for Americans was also cut short when people who were still out of work; facing a rise in rents and other costs obviously needed more. Yet, how many $billions worth of equipment and help have we sent to the Ukraine? A $40 billion package has been approved in addition to what was already sent.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/what-does-40-billion-aid-ukraine-buy
 
It's not going to get any lower! Debt to GDP ratio has exceeded 100% and has doubled since 2011. Much of the yearly spending is for mandatory programs. That includes Social Security and Medicare for us old folks. Yea, yea I know that is money that we have paid into and are owed blah, blah. The so-called "trust fund" is just smoke and mirrors, accounting gimmickry; since Lyndon Johnson it's all been part of the general revenue fund.
 
The national debt doubled in 8 years under Obama, from $10 trillion to $20 trillion, and added another $8 trillion in 4 years under Trump. It is currently increasing at about $1.5 trillion per year under the new guy.
 
spectratg said:
In early 1968 President Johnson made a change in the budget presentation by including Social Security and all other trust funds in a "unified budget."
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Most likely this myth comes from a confusion between the financing of the Social Security program and the way the Social Security Trust Fund is treated in federal budget accounting. Starting in 1969 (due to action by the Johnson Administration in 1968) the transactions to the Trust Fund were included in what is known as the "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget. This is sometimes described by saying that the Social Security Trust Funds are "on-budget." This budget treatment of the Social Security Trust Fund continued until 1990 when the Trust Funds were again taken "off-budget." https://www.ssa.gov/history/InternetMyths.html
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The fund has operated in the same manner, with the exception of accounting practices.
 
So we will be getting a large COLA increase in Social Security, something like 8.7%. Great for me, but I worry about my daughters when they are ready to retire in 20-30 years. I know that my daughters are following my advice to save as much as possible, some more than others. My investment advisor has long since told me that Social Security, at least in its present form, will not be there for them. I will "happily" take the 8.7%, and hope that my retirement community fee will go up by that amount or less (which will probably be the case), but knowing that means fewer dollars for my children and grandchildren in the future. The national debt just keeps spiraling out of control, the most humongous Ponzi scheme in history! Some day that house of cards will collapse I fear, with the most severe consequences in history.
 
This year the US government spending has been down 15% and the government income is up 23% (compared to last year), so even tho not balanced at least it is headed in a better direction.

There are probably lots of ways the country could get more revenue, over on the early retirement forum it seems all the people who have accumulated millions so they can retire decades early take advantage of getting tax credits to avoid paying full price for health care. On the one hand I think we should just have nationalized health care (or everyone on Medicare) because the costs are ridiculous, but on the other hand, why are the people with so much money able to get tax credits that are intended for low income people. The tax code appears to favor the people with the most money, they have so many ways to avoid having income. Like Roth IRAs, what is the purpose of them, a way for rich people to not even have to pay capital gains taxes?! Sheesh!

If we got rid of the idea of 'exempt' employees that don't get paid for their extra work hours, at least three of my previous coworkers would have double or triple the amount of income and then pay more taxes. Or maybe companies would hire more people instead of working to death the employees they have. Either way, more revenue for the government.
 
As the Fed continues to raise the Fed Funds Rate, more and more of the Federal Budget will be going to paying the Interest on the National Debt, and less going to traditional government services. Eventually, this will require raising taxes substantially, OR devaluing the Dollar. Other nations, such as Greece and Argentina faced the same problem, and chose to devalue their currency. This would put half our population into living in poverty. How many could survive if a loaf of bread were to cost $5, and their rents and utilities doubled in cost?
 
spectratg said:
So we will be getting a large COLA increase in Social Security, something like 8.7%. Great for me, but I worry about my daughters when they are ready to retire in 20-30 years. I know that my daughters are following my advice to save as much as possible, some more than others. My investment advisor has long since told me that Social Security, at least in its present form, will not be there for them. I will "happily" take the 8.7%, and hope that my retirement community fee will go up by that amount or less (which will probably be the case), but knowing that means fewer dollars for my children and grandchildren in the future. The national debt just keeps spiraling out of control, the most humongous Ponzi scheme in history! Some day that house of cards will collapse I fear, with the most severe consequences in history.
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I feel extremely sorry for the younger set too! I have a great nephew who is only 8. They have simply a glimmer of surviving without working 60 hours a week. By the time he is 18, a little can of soup will be out the roof in cost. SS will be phased out over the next 50 years, except those already on it. I see mankind itself extinguishing in 100 years. The world is in bad bad shape. Look what has been done for thier future! :mad:
 
Debt isn't bad it's when the debt isn't paid. Buy a car on credit or get a home mortgage & you owe a debt. Don't pay & the car or home can be repossessed. But repossessing what the government owes investors isn't possible.

What is the national deficit?
A deficit occurs when the federal governmentā€™s spending exceeds its revenues. The federal government has spent $945.72 billion more than it has collected in fiscal year (FY) 2022, resulting in a national deficit.
945,715,073,993 Billion Dollars

Fiscal year-to-date (since October 2021) total updated monthly using the Monthly Treasury Statement (MTS) dataset.

Compared to the same period last year (Oct 2020 - Aug 2021), our national deficit has decreased.

$2,710,634,537,077
-65%

Key Takeaways
A budget deficit occurs when the money going out exceeds the money coming in for a given period. On this page, we calculate the deficit by the governmentā€™s fiscal year.

In the last 50 years, the federal government budget has run a surplus five times, most recently in 2001.

To pay for government programs while operating under a deficit, the federal government borrows money by selling U.S. Treasury bonds, bills, and other securities. The national debt is the accumulation of this borrowing along with associated interest owed to investors who purchased these securities.

https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/

While the deficit has decreased some the fact is there is still a deficit. And those that have bought government debt have to hope that our government won't fault of those debts.
 
spectratg said:
The national debt doubled in 8 years under Obama, from $10 trillion to $20 trillion, and added another $8 trillion in 4 years under Trump. It is currently increasing at about $1.5 trillion per year under the new guy.
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Actually, the debt increased by $8.335 trillion during Obama's tenure ā€” not $10 trillion.

High deficits can be expected during a deep recession, as what the U.S. experienced in 2008-2009. Because of high unemployment, revenues decreased dramatically. Expenditures rose to cover unemployment claims, welfare payouts, and stimulus programs. We were also wasting 100s of billions of dollars on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
spectratg said:
So we will be getting a large COLA increase in Social Security, something like 8.7%. Great for me, but I worry about my daughters when they are ready to retire in 20-30 years. I know that my daughters are following my advice to save as much as possible, some more than others. My investment advisor has long since told me that Social Security, at least in its present form, will not be there for them. I will "happily" take the 8.7%, and hope that my retirement community fee will go up by that amount or less (which will probably be the case), but knowing that means fewer dollars for my children and grandchildren in the future. The national debt just keeps spiraling out of control, the most humongous Ponzi scheme in history! Some day that house of cards will collapse I fear, with the most severe consequences in history.
Click to expand...
Good for you. You're like me. I've been telling my son (for years) and grandchildren to save as much as they can. My son is not good at it. My working grandchildren range from age 19 to 33. My 19 year old granddaughter hasn't been working a year yet. She's a full time student living on campus and holding down an almost full time job. I told each of them to save a minimum of 20% of their salary and more if they can, of course. But with today's prices, it's not easy and things are only going to get worse IMO. I've also given them all a heads up on what SS will be like in their future. Sadly, the "American dream" is already crumbling for many. šŸ˜Ÿ
 
1. Foreign aid from 2013 - 2018 totalled over 282 Billion!

2. There are TOO many people on the feds payroll, yet they keep establishing new programs.

3. Why do we have troops stationed around the Globe, but not here protecting. The Defense budget is sickening! What other Country on Earth has a defense budget like the U.S.?

Look at the first chart. Sickening. Yet the govt. justifies it.

https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison
 
OneEyedDiva said:
Here's what I don't understand. When more stimulus checks were suggested during the pandemic, the response was it would be too expensive to send out more. Other pandemic related help for Americans was also cut short when people who were still out of work; facing a rise in rents and other costs obviously needed more. Yet, how many $billions worth of equipment and help have we sent to the Ukraine? A $40 billion package has been approved in addition to what was already sent.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/what-does-40-billion-aid-ukraine-buy
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Exactly! Unbelievable isn't it? Political priorities shift from crisis to crisis and we are kept in a constant state of crisis.
 


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