National debt tops 31 Trillion for the first time

I'm no economist, but I've been told that a national debt isn't as horrible as you think. People owe money in bank loans, which have to be paid back in a certain time. Nations don't have that time constraint. They can borrow money in today's dollars, which is used today at its full value, but can be repaid 50-100 years later in 2122 dollars, but with inflation its value is much less.
I've been told Alexander Hamilton figured this out?
 
fuzzybuddy...think about this. Only two ways for our government to get more money. Borrow it from foreign counties, like China or print more cash at our mints. If we continue to flood the American economy with more cash, in time it literally reduces the value of the American dollar worldwide. Which means we have to pay more dollars for what we buy or borrow from other counties. If you think about this, it is a road to financial disaster. If we keep going, we will hit a point where other counties will not continue to loan us money or sell to us, as our money will be worthless. Or more likely, we will not have enough cash to pay off the interest payments on our existing debt, and we are cut off from all other counties are we have no way of paying....

Your scenario above ignores the fact that we have to pay interest every year on the money we borrow!

And worse than that you have the scenario wrong. If we borrow 50 billion dollars from China today. In 100 years, we still have to give them 50 billion dollars, in original value based on the exchange rate with their money, back to pay off the loan. Since we are borrowing money and printing more cash our dollar is no longer worth a dollar in Chinese cash, it is only worth 50 cents. So, when we go to pay off the 50 billion dollars, we have to give them 100 billion American dollars to offset the drop in value of the American dollar.
 

Last edited:
During in my twenties I repeatedly heard that Social Security wasn't going to be there for me when I retired. Then when my older friends started turning 62, many decided to take the money and run because they were convinced SS wouldn't be there for them much longer. It's 15 years later, SS is still paying out, and those friends rue their decision and paltry monthly checks.

Whatever happens, happens. The national debt is so far out of my control that I can't worry about it. Both parties contribute to the situation equally.

I hope for the best and plan for the worst.
 
Timewise 60+ said:
Only two ways for our government to get more money. Borrow it from foreign counties, like China or print more cash at our mints. If we continue to flood the American economy with more cash, in time it literally reduces the value of the American dollar worldwide. Which means we have to pay more dollars for what we buy or borrow from other counties. If you think about this, it is a road to financial disaster.
Click to expand...
But isn't the situation right now the opposite of that? The dollar is currently too strong which is good for US consumers of products that come from other countries, but bad for US companies that sell to other countries.

Also, I heard on YouTube finance videos that foreign countries buy US Govt bonds when their own currency is having problems, so that means that lots of countries are "loaning" money to the US (not just China) right now.

I'm buying bonds too, so I am also loaning money to the US Govt. Social Security trust fund also buys US bonds. So a lot of the national debt we owe to ourselves! Kind of like if I borrowed from one of my accounts and was paying it back to another of my accounts with a little bit of interest. Finance is all so complicated.

But, when I visited Canada a few months ago I was very happy about our strong dollar, and I'm very happy about US bonds paying better interest rates now.

My own pet theory is that since our productivity has gone up enormously over the decades, but the pay to workers has not risen in real values, and since money is supposed to represent production, it might be perfectly safe to print money to compensate for all the value that the horrid 1% has sucked away from us (unless the rich people were to suddenly give it back to the workers, that would mess us up, but I don't think we have to worry about that happening).
 
HoneyNut....most of what you say is true, but the items you mention are not a major part of our national debt.

The current Administration is spending money faster than our government can take it in. This results in a national debt. See current summary below.

'The federal government ran a deficit of $220 billion in August 2022, $49 billion higher than the deficit of $170 billion that was recorded in August 2021. That increase reflects outlays that were $84 billion higher in August 2022 than they were in the same month last year, partially offset by revenues that were $35 billion higher."

This is driving us into a recession...
 
StarSong said:
During in my twenties I repeatedly heard that Social Security wasn't going to be there for me when I retired. Then when my older friends started turning 62, many decided to take the money and run because they were convinced SS wouldn't be there for them much longer. It's 15 years later, SS is still paying out, and those friends rue their decision and paltry monthly checks.

Whatever happens, happens. The national debt is so far out of my control that I can't worry about it. Both parties contribute to the situation equally.

I hope for the best and plan for the worst.
Click to expand...
Just so you know, you cannot "take the money and run"! You can only decide when to start taking your SSI payments. SSI has been fully funded for years, but the government is taking these payments and using them on other priorities, so they tell us that SSI is broke and it is, but it is not because all of us did not pay all of our SSI, as we had no choice!
 
HoneyNut said:
... On the one hand I think we should just have nationalized health care (or everyone on Medicare) because the costs are ridiculous, but on the other hand ...
Click to expand...
Seriously, you don't want that. Our gov't does, for sure, and we'll have it soon as they work out some details around State-v-Fed issues. But they don't care about people, they only care about the status of our nation. After all, the US has lots and lots of people, and with more coming in all the time, there's plenty to sacrifice spare.
 
Timewise 60+ said:
HoneyNut....most of what you say is true, but the items you mention are not a major part of our national debt.

The current Administration is spending money faster than our government can take it in. This results in a national debt. See current summary below.

'The federal government ran a deficit of $220 billion in August 2022, $49 billion higher than the deficit of $170 billion that was recorded in August 2021. That increase reflects outlays that were $84 billion higher in August 2022 than they were in the same month last year, partially offset by revenues that were $35 billion higher."

This is driving us into a recession...
Click to expand...
You're forgetting global trade issues.
 
The federal government ran a budget surplus of $308 billion in April of 2022 compared to a deficit of $225 billion in April of 2021. Hey, we must be doing great!

Data can be cherry-picked to prove anything. :ROFLMAO:
 
Timewise 60+ said:
Just so you know, you cannot "take the money and run"! You can only decide when to start taking your SSI payments. SSI has been fully funded for years, but the government is taking these payments and using them on other priorities, so they tell us that SSI is broke and it is, but it is not because all of us did not pay all of our SSI, as we had no choice!
Click to expand...
Take the money and run is a figure of speech. I'm sure everyone here knew what I meant.
 
Take the money and run: To accept or be satisfied with what one has earned, achieved, or accumulated in some activity, endeavor, or arrangement and refrain from trying to improve the terms.
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+the+money+and+run

My post referred to people who took reduced SS benefits at 62 because they were under the mistaken impression that by the time they got to age 85 or older, SS would no longer be in existence or the benefits would be significantly lessened.
 
By the way, it's now $35.37 trillion, so up about $3.5 trillion in the last two years! But, hey, who's counting?

Apparently no one. There has been zero comment about the national debt or deficit spending in this presidential election year. :mad:
 
Nothing will change until we expect less from our government and pay more in taxes so I doubt that anything will change in my lifetime.

We are fortunate that the US dollar is seen as the World’s reserve currency, that helps to spread the risk but for how long.

It always seems that when the deficit balloons out of control some bean counter gets the idea to raise interest rates and shrink the deficit but the cost to service the debt always remains the same.

1726259000205.gif
 
HermitHogan said:
At the same time, we have millionaires and billionaires paying almost nothing in taxes. And corporations that earn billions pay nothing in taxes.

Their investments in politicians have paid off!
Click to expand...
While there are exceptions, overall the above is not correct.

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2023 Update

In 2020, the bottom half of taxpayers earned 10.2 percent of total AGI and paid 2.3 percent of all federal individual income taxes. The top 1 percent earned 22.2 percent of total AGI and paid 42.3 percent of all federal income taxes.

In all, the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid $723 billion in income taxes while the bottom 90 percent paid $450 billion.
Click to expand...

The deficits are a spending problem, not an income problem.
 
I think the best approach is to treat it like a pie (Who doesn't love pie?)
You estimate as close as possible what the GDP will be in the year ahead
Then that's the pie.
It gets divided up into categories and subcategories as the budget for the upcoming year (Allowing for a few unexpected emergencies).
Then each agency receiving funding has to figure out how they will adjust their spending to comply.
That's how it done for a personal budget. You know your income and you learn to live within your means.
 
The US ran up a massive debt during WWII. However, the people and Politician's, back then, accepted the responsibility, and raised taxes that reached as high as 92% on individual incomes and corporate profits and by the mid 1950's that huge debt was pretty much resolved. I guess the people back then cared more for the nation than today's population, Eventually, if today's trends continue, half out population will be thrust into poverty as the dollar becomes almost worthless.
 


Back
Top