National debt tops 31 Trillion for the first time

Jeni said:
It is much like a family budget just increasing the income does not work as well as ........combining cuts in spending and waste.
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Here's a comparison of the Federal budget to an estimated family budget:
Federal Gov'tFamily $95,000/yr
Income:$4.8 trillion$95,000
Spending:$6.4 Trillion$126,656
Deficit:$1.6 trillion/year$31,664/year
Debt$33 trillion$653,000
 

Here's a radical solution: Delegate paying down the debt to businesses, by voluntary participation. It would work like this.
Businesses would delegate a certain percentage of profit to paying down the debt, and the money they donate cannot be allocated for any other purpose.

In exchange, the government would make it publicly known which businesses nationally and locally that have contributed. The public would be further encouraged to direct the majority of their shopping to the businesses that are the most generous. They get good advertisement and generate more traffic for their generosity, the debt would be paid down, it's a win-win.

Somehow it would have to be required that the US live within it's balanced budget going forward, so no more adding to the debt. Getting cooperation would be near impossible, but if they realized how high the stakes were, who knows.
 
JustDave said:
Now, I remember two or three years ago, I received two stimulus checks, each one being basically equal to a monthly Social Security check. For most people, two social security checks does not a spending spree make, at least not one lasting two or three years.

What am I missing here?
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I only saw two as well. Maybe some people qualified for a 3rd?

But you're forgetting the substantial per-child "child care" benefit which was spent like water on new Nikes, cosmetics, clothing, and dope.
 

Or we might eliminate wars of aggression and regime change, including proxy wars where we shovel trillions into the hands of corrupt foreign regimes. Start closing bases in most of the world.

We've already begun part of the solution, pull back policing the seas and sky around the world as globalism winds down.

We could also cut off "aid" to countries hardly in need or deserving of the welfare. When Europe begins eating each other again (oops, is this under way?) turn our backs and don't take sides. You can't fix stupid.
 
There were 3 rounds of stimulus checks.
  1. Cares act in March, 2020 ($1.200 per adult and $500 per child)
  2. Consolidated Appropriations in December, 2020 ($600 per adult and $600 per child)
  3. American Rescue Plan Act of 2021 (Varied based on income ceiling, with maximum $1,400 for singles earning less than $75K, etc.)
 
Harry Le Hermit said:
There were 3 stimulus checks, in mid 2020; late 2020; then spring of 2021. There were a lot of lockdowns, etc. which had people spending less by staying at home, etc.

The 3rd stimulus check coincided with the rollout of the vaccine and proclamations that the cure had arrived and it was safe to resume normal life.
A massive jump in sales across the board exposed a broken supply chain which resulted in retailers, along with others needing to stock for the massive surge that was created almost overnight.

You can't sell something, if you don't have it, which led to paying premiums to stock those shelves. There were other factors throughout 2021 and especially 2022, that played a roll. Massive front loading of imported goods during the supply chain crisis, further exacerbated that crisis, which was due to an impending west coast port strike, that was resolved prior to walkout. As well, as the Texas Freeze and impact on gasoline prices, and then Ukraine.

That's my 2¢ worth.
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We also had real estate, property management agency, and property owner issues while there was a long-lived moratorium on rent and evictions. That's still causing ripples.
 
dilettante said:
But you're forgetting the substantial per-child "child care" benefit which was spent like water on new Nikes, cosmetics, clothing, and dope.
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I only know details for one guy who got them, he has three young children and his wife only works a few Walmart shifts on the weekends when he's available to watch their children. He was very happy to get the child credits and paid off his credit card debt (that included a car repair and new tires), and then later on it seemed he was able to start putting some money into Savings (retirement and college stuff I think).

It is understandable that you wouldn't like the idea of any of the money being spent on drugs, but I think it must have been a long time since you had growing children if you think spending money on shoes and clothing is not a good use of it, and if you've raised a girl you surely should understand that cosmetics are an unavoidable expense.
 
I agree that we need to pay down the National Debt but putting us on a true balanced budget could be disastrous in dealing with things like the recent pandemic, hurricanes, etc…

The government needs the ability to borrow just like we do but they also need to spend responsibly.

I get disappointed by some of the never ending foreign aid and funding for foreign conflicts but I believe that has helped us to avoid war and conflict on our own soil and that has a great value to all of us.

It took a long time to create this massive debt and it will take a long time to dig our way out by simply raising taxes and cutting spending.

The sad part is that most of the work and sacrifice will be left to future generations that received no benefit had no hand in creating the situation.
 
Rich said:
Spot on. If a politician were to run on a balanced budget platform or even a budget reduction plan and actually inform the people how this would affect them, they would never get elected. Here in Florida, our Governor DeSantis strictly forbids anyone to mention climate change; he's a true dinosaur when it comes to anything environmental. Just recently, he tried to pass a plan to put golf courses in the state parks. It was all hush, hush, but when it came to light, he went all trump and said he wasn't aware of the plan.
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LOL. Yes we need more solar panel to cover the grasslands and more wind turbines in the oceans. It's true that we can change the weather. Now if we could only get China to stop building a coal plant a month.
 
Aunt Bea said:
I agree that we need to pay down the National Debt but putting us on a true balanced budget could be disastrous in dealing with things like the recent pandemic, hurricanes, etc…

The government needs the ability to borrow just like we do but they also need to spend responsibly.

I get disappointed by some of the never ending foreign aid and funding for foreign conflicts but I believe that has helped us to avoid war and conflict on our own soil and that has a great value to all of us.

It took a long time to create this massive debt and it will take a long time to dig our way out by simply raising taxes and cutting spending.

The sad part is that most of the work and sacrifice will be left to future generations that received no benefit had no hand in creating the situation.
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In a perfect world, we would run surpluses during times of prosperity and deficits during economic doldrums to get the country back on track. The debt accumulated during tough times would be paid off during prosperous times. And for the most part, that's how our country used to operate before the '80s.
 
HermitHogan said:
In a perfect world, we would run surpluses during times of prosperity and deficits during economic doldrums to get the country back on track. The debt accumulated during tough times would be paid off during prosperous times. And for the most part, that's how our country used to operate before the '80s.
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Clinton got the budget balanced, briefly. Every president since has ignored the problem. Now it's too big to deal with.
 
DonnyO said:
LOL. Yes we need more solar panel to cover the grasslands and more wind turbines in the oceans. It's true that we can change the weather. Now if we could only get China to stop building a coal plant a month.
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I thought I had read some time back that China was becoming the leader in renewable energy, even outpacing the U.S., so I checked it today, and it's apparently true. Here's the link:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/08/how-china-is-leading-the-renewable-energy-revolution/
 
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HermitHogan said:
In a perfect world, we would run surpluses during times of prosperity and deficits during economic doldrums to get the country back on track. The debt accumulated during tough times would be paid off during prosperous times. And for the most part, that's how our country used to operate before the '80s.
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It sure sounds simple enough for even a politician to understand. 😉🤭😂

“The federal government cannot maintain a budget surplus any more than an alcoholic can leave a fresh bottle of whiskey untouched in the cupboard”​

— Ron Paul​


“If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand.” ​

- Milton Friedman​

 
I'm sure due to the scope and size of the country they are, but they are still heavily dependent on coal. Also, I would take anything put out by Project Syndicate with a grain of salt.
 
Aunt Bea said:
It sure sounds simple enough for even a politician to understand. 😉🤭😂
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It's basic Keynesian economics.

Milton Friedman became popular in the '70s and his policies were adapted in the '80s. And that was the beginning of the end. With the exception of the late '90s when we had the tech-boom and tax increases that created budget surpluses, we've been running progressively larger budget deficits. Some day, it's all going to come crashing down.
 
Aunt Bea said:
It took a long time to create this massive debt and it will take a long time to dig our way out by simply raising taxes and cutting spending.
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We are the laughing stock of the world. We have soldiers stationed around the world instead of protecting the U.S. The defense budget is almost a Trillion dollars a year now. Absolutely pathetic. The SC has ruled a citizen can not challenge an expenditure of Congress, so they answer to no one.
Aunt Bea said:
The sad part is that most of the work and sacrifice will be left to future generations that received no benefit had no hand in creating the situation.
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We can never escape this turmoil, we are far beyond the point of hope, now paying almost a Trillion dollars a year just for an INTEREST payment. Congress has destroyed this Country, yet their Pensions are outrageous. I am so glad I am not growing up now, the human depression would kill me. Today's children, as you do rightfully point out, are doomed. 😭
 
If I was in my late 50's or early 60's the kind of info I'm posting with referencs kind of info would get my attention. Sure the debt is high & growing, but worse yet is the deficit.

Paying down the debt doesn't look all that promising to me. At my age jobs paid by taxes [local state & federal employees] while the higher paying manufacturing jobs are declining I doubt will impact me. Logic tells me that increasing debt & the deficit growing isn't going to be pretty in 15 to 20 years. Possibly sooner but there is always hope. Right!

This is the kind of info I mean.

Overall, the federal government is the largest employer in the US. As of September 2023, approximately 2.95 million individuals were part of the US Federal work force. Jan 11, 2024

Federal Employers.
*************************************************************************************************
We see similar losses in manufacturing employment. Overall, the number of manufacturing jobs in the United States fell by 2.4 million. Again, when considering the growth of the U.S. economy over the past two decades, the fall in manufacturing jobs is even more significant, as shown in figure 3, while the number of jobs in America grew by over 14 percent from 2002 to 2022, the number in manufacturing fell by 17 percent. Only three sectors, food, beverage and tobacco, and chemical manufacturing, saw an increase in employment over the twenty-year period. Except for beverage and tobacco, every manufacturing sector in the United States experienced a drop in employment relative to the national average.

The Census Bureau Confirms US Manufacturing Has Declined
 
ohioboy said:
We are the laughing stock of the world. We have soldiers stationed around the world instead of protecting the U.S. The defense budget is almost a Trillion dollars a year now. Absolutely pathetic. The SC has ruled a citizen can not challenge an expenditure of Congress, so they answer to no one.

We can never escape this turmoil, we are far beyond the point of hope, now paying almost a Trillion dollars a year just for an INTEREST payment. Congress has destroyed this Country, yet their Pensions are outrageous. I am so glad I am not growing up now, the human depression would kill me. Today's children, as you do rightfully point out, are doomed. 😭
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The coming crash, I believe, is well planned by the powers that be, to be delayed as long as possible. It will not be pleasant.
 
gruntlabor said:
The coming crash, I believe, is well planned by the powers that be, to be delayed as long as possible. It will not be pleasant.
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I agree that a true crash would not be pleasant, especially for us old folks that don’t have much of any chance for a do over.

I think that after the initial shock and pity party people would roll up their sleeves and start over just like our grandparents did during the Great Depression.

"Rich fellas come up an' they die, an' their kids ain't no good an' they die out. But we keep a'comin'. We're the people that live. They can't wipe us out; they can't lick us...”
- Ma Joad, Grapes of Wrath
 
While I'm not a fan of spending our tax dollars on foreign aid, it is in fact a minor part of our problem.
For 2024, the U.S. has earmarked around $50 to $63 billion for foreign aid, depending on specific allocations and programs. This includes about $32 billion for USAID-managed accounts, which cover development, humanitarian, and economic assistance. Additionally, the budget request includes funds for pressing global challenges such as humanitarian relief, food security, and global health initiatives. About $10.5 billion is set aside for humanitarian assistance, and significant portions are dedicated to supporting specific countries, with top recipients including Israel, Jordan, Egypt, and Ukraine.
With a total budget of around $6.9 trillion, $63 billion in foreign aid is less than 1% of the budget. I'd still rather see that money go into our school system or almost any other domestic improvement plan.
 
Rich said:
While I'm not a fan of spending our tax dollars on foreign aid, it is in fact a minor part of our problem.
For 2024, the U.S. has earmarked around $50 to $63 billion for foreign aid, depending on specific allocations and programs. This includes about $32 billion for USAID-managed accounts, which cover development, humanitarian, and economic assistance. Additionally, the budget request includes funds for pressing global challenges such as humanitarian relief, food security, and global health initiatives. About $10.5 billion is set aside for humanitarian assistance, and significant portions are dedicated to supporting specific countries, with top recipients including Israel, Jordan, Egypt, and Ukraine.
With a total budget of around $6.9 trillion, $63 billion in foreign aid is less than 1% of the budget. I'd still rather see that money go into our school system or almost any other domestic improvement plan.
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I don't think Federal money should go into the school system. Schools should be local with state supervision. Federal intervention is not useful in any way.
 


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