What are things that everyone ought to understand, but many don't?

Tazx said:
There are many countries that you do pay more (for healthcare) if you are a smoker, a drinker, are overweight and other lifestyle choices
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Which countries are those? I did an internet search and can't find them. Perhaps my search parameters were incorrect.

If it's merely because of going to the doctor more often, that's also true of folks needing those services despite healthier lifestyles.
 
Gardenlover said:
Who decides what is true? Danger Wil Roberson, danger!
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The gods argued until they had a consensus on the best reasoning. Today we rely on experts and some people are eager for the day we rely on AI. Personally, I think that is a terrible idea.

I think democracy is based on the gods and arguing until we have a consensus. Unfortunately, this demands a well-educated mass and we are not doing a good of educating everyone.
 
Aneeda72 said:
What don’t people understand about this and should?

There is a terrible dilemma when you mention killing the innocent. Define innocent-a newborn for sure, and now a fetus in many states. Now here”s the dilemma. I adopted an infant who died, in a nursing home, before a year old. The adoption was not completed.

We brought the baby home, he was born hydrocephalic, huge head. Born DOA, the doctor resuscitated him against the bio parents wishes . We took him. He became ill at about six weeks, had a spinal infection due to his condition. In the course of testing, we learned he had only a brain stem, no brain present just a fluid filled head. He could not maintain his temperature and had to be placed in a nursing home, where he died, alone in his crib.

After he died, we received his ashes, but we could not bury him. He was not our baby. Couple years later his parents, who had been notified of his death, picked his ashes up from us. I had ensured he was baptized. I had named him after my brother. Not realizing my brother’s name was also the name of his bio father. Strange?

Anyway, Thousands of children used to be born like him, with various serious birth defects, until doctors tested and a lot of these children were aborted. Now with limited abortions in the USA, more disabled children will be born. Those children, if born DOA, will be resuscitated, a lot will be born alive. I think the most aborted fetus are those with Down’s syndrome.

In China, these children are left somewhere to die. In the USA, they will be given up for adoption. If not adopted they will be in an institution for life. This is how it used to be, this is how it will be again.

Now, understand the life of these babies, who become children, who become adults. Raised in institutions their entire lives. Think of the COSTS of these children, these adults to each and every state. Building the institutions, staffing them, the medical care for each individual child who will live into at least their 50’s and longer. Don’t forget schooling. Special school for these children, special teachers, special everything.

Those who applaud the end of abortion DID NOT UNDERSTAND. But, when the bills start coming in, they will. When their state taxes start going up they will. When the human cost starts to take its toll, where will these ignorant people be? Complaining about the costs.

Everyone has compassion for a disabled baby and child. Most look away from disabled adults.

When the bill was stuck down, Jesus wept-Forgive them father, they know not what they do.

The stupidity of the American people never surprises me.
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This is absolutely one of the best things I have ever read! I wish every single person could see this!
 
Buckeye said:
I'll let @Vida May respond to this, since you can't have the censorship she supports without someone deciding what is right and what is wrong.
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Thank. The people should imitate the gods. That is they should argue until there is a consensus. However, that is not 100% workable because some people believe there should be protected human rights and equality, and some who sit in the seats of power and deny human rights to some people.

Education is so important to our decisions and allowing local control of education may seem a good idea, but considering what can go wrong with that, local control of education can create serious problems. We need to work on our agreements.

Is everyone opposed to censorship? Including accepting lies and harmful beliefs such as we don't need to concern ourselves with global warming being taught in schools that also do not allow education for higher order thinking skills.
 
Vida May said:
Thank. The people should imitate the gods. That is they should argue until there is a consensus. However, that is not 100% workable because some people believe there should be protected human rights and equality, and some who sit in the seats of power and deny human rights to some people.

Education is so important to our decisions and allowing local control of education may seem a good idea, but considering what can go wrong with that, local control of education can create serious problems. We need to work on our agreements.

Is everyone opposed to censorship? Including accepting lies and harmful beliefs such as we don't need to concern ourselves with global warming being taught in schools that also do not allow education for higher order thinking skills.
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I am extremely against censorship with exceptions, of course. No one has to accept lies. But if someone chooses to believe lies, then that’s their issue, not mine. Harmful beliefs, judgement call, and no one is entitled to judge anyone else’s beliefs. What harms some, does not harm others. I am not allergic to strawberries, but they kill others.

Calling fire in a movie Theater, gets people killed. This kind of censorship, yes, any other type no.

Highly educated people can be and are frequently stupid. There is no cure for stupid. If you crave censorship, which is simply one group controlling another, there are several countries that will be happy to accommodate you.

But not the USA.
 
Buckeye said:
So who gets to determine "truth, right or wrong"?? Censorship certainly does NOT teach the difference, and education certainly hasn't helped.
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I am not sure censorship did not help. But what the **** do I know?

How do you feel reading that socially unacceptable word? If we talk like that what kind of people will be attracted to the forum and what kind of people will avoid the forum? I remember back at the beginning of online discussions and how awful they were, forcing some social rules that could be enforced by banning people. Today I repeatedly hear in the news about young people committing suicide because of personal attacks made in social media.

An amoral society is self-destructive. Education for technology ended education for good moral judgment and left that education up to the church. I think that was a terrible mistake.
 
Vida May said:
I am not sure censorship did not help. But what the **** do I know?

How do you feel reading that socially unacceptable word? If we talk like that what kind of people will be attracted to the forum and what kind of people will avoid the forum? I remember back at the beginning of online discussions and how awful they were, forcing some social rules that could be enforced by banning people. Today I repeatedly hear in the news about young people committing suicide because of personal attacks made in social media.

An amoral society is self-destructive. Education for technology ended education for good moral judgment and left that education up to the church. I think that was a terrible mistake.
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I was watching CNN this morning about the situation in Texas. And a guest made my point, that I just made to my daughter who lives in Texas. The Bible is a historical book, and a book important to society as a whole. Teaching the Bibile from an education stand point essential, from a religious stand point , nope.

In Utah, the LDS church has building next to, I think, all the high school. It’s elective to take classes on the LDS religion. In Oklahoma, classrooms are off campus as well, students can pick religion (or whatever it’s called) as a class and walk off campus to the other building.

I am ALL for this. When I grew up in California, a religious organization had a trailer off campus. It was elementary school. Your parents could choose to have you learn about the Bible in that trailer after school. It was one of the best experiences I ever had. They had crayons and papers to color on, and they told stories. And they were kind. I learned that not every adult beat the crap out of you, or called your names, or was cruel. It was worth it just for that.
 
Aneeda72 said:
I am extremely against censorship with exceptions, of course. No one has to accept lies. But if someone chooses to believe lies, then that’s their issue, not mine. Harmful beliefs, judgement call, and no one is entitled to judge anyone else’s beliefs. What harms some, does not harm others. I am not allergic to strawberries, but they kill others.

Calling fire in a movie Theater, gets people killed. This kind of censorship, yes, any other type no.

Highly educated people can be and are frequently stupid. There is no cure for stupid. If you crave censorship, which is simply one group controlling another, there are several countries that will be happy to accommodate you.

But not the US.
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I would not return to this forum if the people were not to my liking. It is kind of like enjoying a nice garden instead of one that is ruined by invasive plants and weeds. What kind of civilization do we want?
 
dilettante said:
It sounds like you really mean you don't want anyone to be able to say things that you disagree with.
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If I didn't enjoy disagreements, I would not engage in forums. I love the mental stimulation and insights I gain by arguing on line. I believe science and political arguments are the most important and should be protected freedom of speech. But that freedom of speech does not mean saying anything we want to say. Saying anything we want to say can be immoral and maybe this discussion could include consideration of what is moral?
 
Vida May said:
I would not return to this forum if the people were not to my liking. It is kind of like enjoying a nice garden instead of one that is ruined by invasive plants and weeds. What kind of civilization do we want?
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I was not saying you should leave the forum, just to be clear.

As to what kind of civilization do we want, I’m pretty good with the one we have. The ebb and flow of red vs blues, hmm, and the independents, is highly entertaining. I use very salty language a lot of the time. 😂. Under censorship I’d have to duct tape my mouth, the tape would stick to my hair, and removing it, well, I’d be bald on the back of my head, and that would be so painful.

Allowing people to be who they want to be, who they are, instead of controlling their every thought and action through censorship is great. I have a really bad back picking rice in a rice field is not for me.

Children allowed to choose who they are and not forced into who a parent wants them to be. Free to not marry or have children. Free to be a drifter if you want to drift. Free to be diabetic and eat candy.

Yup, civilization is fine. For those criminals, well as they say if you do the crime be ready to do the time.
 
Vida May said:
If I didn't enjoy disagreements, I would not engage in forums. I love the mental stimulation and insights I gain by arguing on line. I believe science and political arguments are the most important and should be protected freedom of speech. But that freedom of speech does not mean saying anything we want to say. Saying anything we want to say can be immoral and maybe this discussion could include consideration of what is moral?
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Should it include your definition of moral or my definition? 😂
 
Vida May said:
If I didn't enjoy disagreements, I would not engage in forums. I love the mental stimulation and insights I gain by arguing on line. I believe science and political arguments are the most important and should be protected freedom of speech. But that freedom of speech does not mean saying anything we want to say. Saying anything we want to say can be immoral and maybe this discussion could include consideration of what is moral?
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I agree with you Vida May. A lot of forums are quite restricted, and I think we should all be able to freely express ourselves. To a degree. Of course-read the room-and some topics are delicate, but if proceeding slowly and professionally, no topic should really be 'out of bounds'. Converse or as you say argue politely should be acceptable. Keep insults, hate, and direct threats of course out, but I should be able to say -I dont like this because I feel...-and not have to worry about offending anyone.

It is very good for the mind, and not only keeps us young, but how else do we get to the bottom of things if we can't discuss sensitive things.
 
Vida May said:
I would not return to this forum if the people were not to my liking. It is kind of like enjoying a nice garden instead of one that is ruined by invasive plants and weeds. What kind of civilization do we want?
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A garden is NOT ruined by invasive plants and weeds. It’s enriched. Some weeds are beautiful. Some are ugly. All are part of natures bounty. I see the issue, I think/feel you like a very ordered structured life. I would like that, but sadly, life always had/has other plans for me.
 
Aneeda72 said:
I was watching CNN this morning about the situation in Texas. And a guest made my point, that I just made to my daughter who lives in Texas. The Bible is a historical book, and a book important to society as a whole. Teaching the Bibile from an education stand point essential, from a religious stand point , nope.

In Utah, the LDS church has building next to, I think, all the high school. It’s elective to take classes on the LDS religion. In Oklahoma, classrooms are off campus as well, students can pick religion (or whatever it’s called) as a class and walk off campus to the other building.

I am ALL for this. When I grew up in California, a religious organization had a trailer off campus. It was elementary school. Your parents could choose to have you learn about the Bible in that trailer after school. It was one of the best experiences I ever had. They had crayons and papers to color on, and they told stories. And they were kind. I learned that not every adult beat the crap out of you, or called your names, or was cruel. It was worth it just for that.
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Are you saying that in Oklahoma religion is being taught in off campus locations and students have to walk there for class?
 
Vida May said:
Is everyone opposed to censorship? Including accepting lies and harmful beliefs such as we don't need to concern ourselves with global warming being taught in schools that also do not allow education for higher order thinking skills.
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I've stayed out of this argument so far, but to your question -- I am vehemently opposed to censorship. No matter how ugly, no matter how offensive, no matter how wrong, I served my country for 20+ years so that they (and I) can state what we believe to be true.

If you don't buy it -- that's fine. You have the same rights I do. Ugly arguments sometimes emerge.

But I will go to my deathbed believing in YOUR right to state your beliefs -- within the confines of law. And yeah, I've heard the arguments about shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater when there is no fire. That isn't an opinion -- that's a crime.
 
Gardenlover said:
I disagree. There are absolutes. Is it wrong to kill the innocent which wish to live? Is it okay to hate someone because of their skin color? Beastiality, Pedophilia and so many more. Why are you opposed to there being a right and a wrong? Our viewpoints have nothing to do with what is right and wrong.
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Well, yes. White is white. And black is black. Absolutes. But in context, I think I'm correct.

It's so strange that we can see many examples of "free thinkers" who all think alike, use the exact same phrases and words, and belong and participate in a like-minded group. We live in times where we're supposed to dismiss facts, distrust education, and to deny the knowledge of experts as though Google alone is all that's needed. It's a sad state of affairs.
 
Aneeda72 said:
A garden is NOT ruined by invasive plants and weeds. It’s enriched. Some weeds are beautiful. Some are ugly. All are part of natures bounty. I see the issue, I think/feel you like a very ordered structured life. I would like that, but sadly, life always had/has other plans for me.
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In high school I had one semester of Botany. On one field trip the botanist explained to us nature's cycle after a forest fire. Smaller plants, weeds, bushes, etc until eventually the trees took over. So all local plants have a purpose. On the other hand, plants brought from other countries can take root and destroy the local natural order.
 
Twostep said:
Are you saying that in Oklahoma religion is being taught in off campus locations and students have to walk there for class?
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I am saying thats what the guy, a senator or member of the house, said on CNN. I don’t live in Oklahoma. I lived in Utah for forty years and this is how it is done by the LDS church in Utah at both the junior and high school level.

In Texas, it will actually taught in the schools, not off campus. Daughter lives in Texas, she has already been notified of this. She and I have no objection. El Paso is part of the blue team, and mostly Catholic. So, it works for us.

I goggled it for you @Twostep which you could have done yourself 😮. Religion, the Bible, is taught in the classroom in Oklahoma schools-grades 5 through 12. So, no, they don’t have to walk off campus. Poor dears, they might have got lost.

Apparently, parts of the constitution of the USA, have died and been buried in Oklahoma and Texas; and perhaps elsewhere. But it’s still alive and well in Utah. Our children have to walk off campus. Just saying. 😊
 
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Eupher said:
I've stayed out of this argument so far, but to your question -- I am vehemently opposed to censorship. No matter how ugly, no matter how offensive, no matter how wrong, I served my country for 20+ years so that they (and I) can state what we believe to be true.

If you don't buy it -- that's fine. You have the same rights I do. Ugly arguments sometimes emerge.

But I will go to my deathbed believing in YOUR right to state your beliefs -- within the confines of law. And yeah, I've heard the arguments about shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater when there is no fire. That isn't an opinion -- that's a crime.
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Yes, it is a crime and it is censorship of free speech. And yes, speech is only free because of those willing to fight and die for that and all freedoms. But before shouting fire became a crime, you were free to shout away.

But as Americans became stupider, laws were passed.
 


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